Friday, July 23, 2010

Peter Popoff and Debt Cancellation

There are some things that provoke you in the spirit to the point where you simply have to do something. That's about how I felt as I caught Peter Popoff and his wife on television trying to give away these miracle spring water gifts to potential followers. What they said simply shocked me, so much so that I felt compelled to make a short video about it.

Apologies ahead of time for the quality. I recorded the episode with my digital camcorder, then edited all of it in Adobe Premiere. In the meantime, enjoy.

18 comments:

  1. That truly was some way out stuff he was saying. But the miracle spring water was the worst. What was the tie in supposed to be with that? Special water "cleanses" your debt? I've never heard such blasphemy in my life! But then when he started going off about getting excited about his Christianity because his debt was cancelled—well, let's just say I concur with your opening statement to this video.

    You did a good job editing the video and used some very powerful Scriptures to shoot down his false teaching.

    ReplyDelete
  2. But Calvinism/Presbyterianism does equate grace with financial prosperity, seeing the later as a sign of the former. (I don't understand it either how they can square this with the lives of Job, Christ [Matthew 8:20; Luke 9:58], or the other prophets and Apostles, but it obviously doesn't seem to bother them...)

    ReplyDelete
  3. Can you please explain that point of view, Lvka?

    ReplyDelete
  4. They think that the righteous will prosper.

    ReplyDelete
  5. Prosper spiritually, not financially.

    ReplyDelete
  6. Uhm.. no. They really believe that one's worldy or material prosperity is a measure of one's righteousness and holiness, showing God's great blessing and approval, and the opposite of that is a sign of one's sinfulness and departure from God's ways, signifying His curse or wrath for one's mistakes. (You seriously haven't heard of this, or learned it in history-class at school?)

    ReplyDelete
  7. Could you please cite a source, especially from a Reformed source?

    I have heard of something similar to this, from a work of a scholar whose name I forget. However, the opinion of one scholar (who, IIRC, wasn't even Reformed) does not denote the attitude of an entire theology. I have yet to encounter anything similar to Word of Faith prosperity gospels in Reformed theology.

    I'm especially amazed you're bringing this forth given that you responded to my post where John Piper, a famous Reformed pastor, condemned the prosperity gospel mindset, going on to say that riches are dangerous things that tend to be a curse.

    ReplyDelete
  8. I learned this at history-class in high-school. It was the first time I've ever heard the word `presbyterian` (of Calvin I knew before) and heard of this preposterous teaching. To my knowledge, it is the actual historic teaching of Calvin, and it's found in his corpus of writings.

    ReplyDelete
  9. Lvka, I'm going to ask you something, and I want you to consider it seriously.

    Suppose you made a post about the early Church and Manichaeanism. Then suppose someone came onto your blog and declared, "I don't get the contention, because Orthodoxy mixed with paganism like the Manichaeans did!" You ask them for a source for that idea, and they reply, "Well, I heard it in a high school class." Would you think that shows any respect for the subject, let alone your point of view?

    As for this thinking being found in Calvin's writings, here's his commentary of Matthew 19:22.

    He went away sorrowful. The result at length showed how widely distant the young man was from that perfection to which Christ had called him; for how comes it that he withdraws from the school of Christ, but because he finds it uneasy to be stripped of his riches? But if we are not prepared to endure poverty, it is manifest that covetousness reigns in us.

    And the following verse:

    Yet this doctrine is highly useful to all; to the rich, that, being warned of their danger, they may be on their guard; to the poor, that, satisfied with their lot, they may not so eagerly desire what would bring more damage than gain. It is true indeed, that riches do not, in their own nature, hinder us from following God; but, in consequence of the depravity of the human mind, it is scarcely possible for those who have a great abundance to avoid being intoxicated by them.

    This doesn't sound anything like the Prosperity Gospel.

    ReplyDelete
  10. I understand what you're saying, but the statement wasn't speculative in nature, nor did it regard the possible origins of the doctrine of Calvinism: it simply described their theology.

    Calvin also didn't say (to my recollection) to keep the riches all for yourself, or something like that... all he said was that they're a sign of blessing, and of God's approval; and the opposite of that, poverty, a sign of His reproof.

    ReplyDelete
  11. Again, please provide a source for that. The quotes I've provided seem to show the opposite. If you are going to make a bold statement regarding a certain theology, please provide a little bit more than "I heard it in a class once."

    ReplyDelete
  12. Don't worry. I'm sure you'll inevitably going to find out more about it in your future formation. Patience is a virtue.

    ReplyDelete
  13. You realize that I can only take that as a "I have no source." Otherwise, we would have heard it.

    ReplyDelete
  14. You do realize on one hand I've never possessed a high-school history-manual in the first place, and that on the other hand my high-school history-notebook is long-gone and burried, right?

    Anyway, I googled it before posting the first comment here, just to make sure I'm not way off or something, and I did indeed see plenty of links, but nothing well-documented or official or scientific. I think I'll leave the pleasure of doing the research up to you (as a prep for your future college-experience).

    Again: he didn't preach "prosperity gospel" --that's a distinctly 20th century American phenomenon--, telling people not to give alms to the poor, keep all the wealth for themselves, or to give money to his ministry 'cuz God's gonna magically repay them hundredfold, or somethin'.. but there are some similarities there nonetheless.

    ReplyDelete
  15. Again, you're not going to wow anyone by coming on and saying, "I'm citing an unknown source taught to me in a high school class long ago." You're also now saying that he didn't teach a "prosperity gospel," even though in your first post you said Calvinism "does equate grace with financial prosperity" (which you could not then back up).

    I have done research, and have yet to see any kind of similarity...other than that both parties say, "It's OK to own some amount of money." That's a pretty thin connection.

    ReplyDelete
  16. Lvka, what you are suggesting is not "new." The Bible itself equates material blessing with God's favor, especially in the Old Testament (Gen 32:9. Deut 5:33, Pro 11L10) and numerous other verses. However, you stated that God equates grace with financial prosperity which is almost the same thing as saying that grace can be earned. But the lack of finances does not necessarily mean that God disfavors a person (cf, John 9) neither does financial prosperity mean God favors a person (Job 21:7). It goes both ways. Just as Jesus said, He causes his sun to rise on the evil and the good, and sends rain on the righteous and the unrighteous (Mt 5:44)

    ReplyDelete
  17. Uhm.. I didn't come here to "wow" you or to tell you of the latest-greatest discoveries in Calvin-studies..

    Anyway..


    EB,

    I agree; question is: does Calvin(ism) ?

    ReplyDelete
  18. Lvka, with all due respect, you keep making bold declarations and then putting the weight of evidence on the other person. Please do not post again until you have evidence for your point.

    ReplyDelete