Podcast: Steve Kelly on the 700 Club

I meant to upload this episode earlier, but Spreaker was giving me problems. So...don't trust me when I say it was last week that this interview happened, ha ha.

In this episode, we review the 700 Club's interview of Steve Kelly, pastor of Wave Church in Virginia Beach. He talks about his book The Accent of Leadership. We explain what did and didn't get said regarding the doctrines taught by Steve Kelly and Wave Church, especially in regards to leadership.



This link takes you to the episode where we examined the cultic teachings by Steve Kelly regarding leadership.

This link takes you to the episode where we examined the 2014 Easter message at Wave Church.

Podcast: Beatles Easter at Wave Church

Is the Gospel preached at Wave Church? What is the message of the cross, according to Wave Church? Find out as we review a message delivered this year's Resurrection Sunday by youth pastor Joe Riddle. Does he present the Gospel and the true message of Easter to the people there?

This link takes you to the podcast episode where we review the dangerous, cult-like teachings by Steve Kelly regarding leadership.

This link takes you to the podcast episode where we review Steve Kelly's Prosperity Gospel beliefs.

This link takes you to a blog post that shows how giving more and more money to Wave Church actually gives you more benefits and influence in the church.

This link takes you to a blog post where we reviewed Joe Riddle's abuse of Revelation 5:12.

Podcast: Steve Kelly and "Money Talks"

In this episode, we review a message by Steve Kelly at Wave Church, where he talks about how you can change the life of a $100 bill. How do you ultimately do that? The answer may not surprise you...



This link takes you to the page discussing the various monikers and levels of recognition granted to people at Wave Church, depending on how much they give above and beyond their tithes and offerings.

This link takes you to the podcast episode where we review Steve Kelly's teachings on leadership, which are dangerously cult-like.

Wave Church's Levels of Giving

A former member of Steve Kelly's Wave Church informed me of an interesting classification they do among their members. Basically, you receive special status for how much you give to the church. I did a bit of digging online, and found some information about these monikers that people at Wave Church are granted.

To the left here, you'll find an image showcasing the actual classification done at Wave Church (it's taken from the 2014 issue of Wave Foundation Magazine). Basically, it depends how much you give to the church ("over and above" the tithes and offerings, according to the magazine), and the titles can be separated as follows:

If you give $120 to $2,499 annually to Wave Church (why these specific numbers, I don't know), you become a member of the Army of Faithful Believers. They are considered the "lifeblood of Wave Church" (I don't know what those who give under $120 are called - knowing Steve Kelly, probably Parasites).

If you give $2,500 to $7,499 annually to Wave Church, you are called a Centurion. This title is inspired by the "high-yield, low maintenance" centurion from Luke 7...which is interesting, given that the story of the faithful centurion in Luke 7 has absolutely nothing to do with money or giving money. These people are "a key part of the financial leadership" of Wave Church, who "see it as a part of their mission to resource the Kingdom" (I suppose the Army of Faithful Believers don't).

Finally, if you give $7,500 to over $1,000,000 annually to Wave Church (remember, this is "over and above" the tithes and offerings), you are called one of the Kingdom People. Like a Centurion, these Kingdom People see "part of the reason they exist is to resource the Kingdom of God," but are those who "consistently place the cause of the King as their first priority" (I guess the Centurions aren't as consistent, or don't have their priorities straight). These people are likewise considered "the financial leaders" of Wave Church.

In application, Centurions and Kingdom People get marginally more benefits than those in the Army: Kingdom People/Centurions Appreciation weekends are held, and both groups have their own "Amazing Race" events. This is on top of the Centurions being "a key part of the financial leadership" and Kingdom People being actual "financial leaders." It's quite clear that the more you give to Wave Church over and above your regular tithes and offerings, the more and more respect and privilege you earn. While they use the phrase "kingdom of God" and claim this is about those who are assisting the kingdom, it's quite clear that this is in a strictly Wave Church context - I doubt I would gain a Kingdom People title giving $1,000,000 to a small church in rural Alabama.

More importantly, is this kind of classification any where in scripture? Were Army of Faithful Believers, Centurions, or Kingdom People mentioned in the gifts of titles listed by Paul in 1 Corinthians 12:28 or Ephesians 4:11? No, they were not. When Paul wrote on donations for the church in Jerusalem in 2 Corinthians 9, did he divide up the believers by how much money they could possibly give? No, not at all. Nowhere in scripture are these titles mentioned, taught, or even hinted at.

What this essentially does is take the church and turn it into any other club or organization. For example: one can be a Regular Member of the National Rifle Association (NRA) and enjoy some benefits; or, one could donate thousands of dollars per year and become an Endowment, Patron, or Benefactor Member, all of whom are able to vote and assist in major decisions made by the organization. Again, the same concept is seen right here in Wave Church: donate more and more money, and receive more and more benefits. Want to become a top financial leader at the church and carry a little bit more weight? Donate enough money to become Kingdom People.

This is especially unbiblical in the sense that it emphasizes benefits for how much one gives, rather than the motivations for it. I am reminded of the story of the widow's offering (Mk 12:41-44; Lk 21:1-4), where a poor widow places two copper coins into the offering box. This woman was commended by Christ because, although her amount was terribly small, she had given all she had. Most churches would recognize the importance of motivation over amount, hence why most of the time givings are anonymous or done out of private conviction. According to the ranks at Wave Church, however, the widow was not placing "the cause of the King" as her "first priority," since she had not donated the demanded (and ridiculously high) amounts.

As I wrote before, there is nothing scriptural about this. This is simply a way for Wave Church to inspire more people to give more money, and to fleece the flock more than they already are.

The Wave Church/Current FM Connection

Over on my blog post about Wave Church and its cultic teachings on leadership, I got a response from one Anne Verebely, who defended Wave Church, calling it "a pretty great church to be a part of" and accusing Frank Rue of "constantly trying to tear down the church" he used to belong to. One advantage of the IntenseDebate add-on I use for comments is that I receive notifications by email whenever someone responds to my blog, and it tells me what email account the person is using to be able to post. I received similar information for this response. Out of curiosity (because the email seemed to belong to a website), I Googled the name and email account, and found that Anne Verebely was connected to a radio station called The Current.

The Current is the Christian radio station at 88.5 FM in the Hampton Roads area, though their website explains that they're at 97.9 in Portsmouth and Chesapeake, 103.7 in Chesapeake as well, 103.9 in Norfolk and Hampton. Anne Verebely is listed as the General Manager (GM) of Current FM, which makes her one of the top people there (Bill Verebely, whom I assume is her husband, is the president). On their Events page, events at Wave Church are listed among others. Their Facebook page likewise advertises events occurring at Wave Church.

Those in the Hampton Roads area who listen to radio, and you might listen to The Current, keep in mind who they are keeping fellowship with, and who they are supporting. Those at The Current should try to examine whether or not Wave Church truly teaches what is sound, biblical doctrine, and whether or not Steve Kelly honors the plain meaning of the word of God. If they do not, and he does not, then they should not partake of fellowship with him.

Podcast: Steve Kelly and Thinking Big

In the following episode, we examine a message by Steve Kelly on "thinking big," which he delivered last Sunday (12/8/2013) at Wave Church's evening services. We especially focus on Steve Kelly's treatment of scripture.



The episode where we examine the cult-like teachings of Steve Kelly on leadership can be found here.

Joe Riddle and Revelation 5:12

One thing I've noticed about large churches or ministries is that, whenever they ask for money or try to inspire the people to give money, they almost always have to find a verse to do so - and most of the time, it's a verse that has little to anything to do with giving, tithing, or similar. For example, Wes Hall of the International House of Prayer, while speaking at OneThing VA Beach, took the story of Cornelius the Centurion from Acts 10, quoted how Cornelius "gave alms generously" in verse 2, and tried to inspire the people to likewise give their generously (despite the fact this wasn't what the passages were commanding).

Another example I heard the other night, while watching Wave Church's online broadcast of their six o'clock Sunday services. Joe Riddle, the young adults pastor of Wave Church, while the offering plate was being passed around, turned to a passage from the Revelation of John to substantiate the need to give to your church. He specifically quoted Revelation 5:12, which reads (I'm quoting here from the ESV):

saying with a loud voice, “Worthy is the Lamb who was slain, to receive power and wealth and wisdom and might and honor and glory and blessing!”

What Joe Riddle did was take the use of the word "wealth" and say, "See? God deserves even our finances!" Thus, people there were to take Revelation 5:12 as inspiration to give money to Wave Church. As many former members of Wave Church have told me, getting your money is something Steve Kelly and his leaders are rather adamant about.

The question for us, in any case, is whether or not Revelation 5:12 is truly teaching that we are supposed to give money to our church.

Let's first recognize some context of what is being spoken of here: the people speaking are the "myriads of myriads, and thousands of thousands" (NASB) of angels on the scene (see v. 11) who are joining in with the previous praises said by the living creatures and elders in vv. 8-10. While many commentators view the living creatures and elders as a summary of creation and the church, the angels obviously represent the heavenly bodies. We see this as a gradual culmination of praise that reaches its climax in verse 13, where all created beings - heavenly and earthly - join together in praise of God.

This tells us that angels are singing this in the verse, not people. Are we therefore to expect that angels are singing that God deserves their finances? Do angels tithe? Does this mean angels have paying jobs with incomes from which they tithe? If not, what then do they tithe? From what financial account do angels give?

Some will probably contend here that the angels are singing about what man should do, to which we should move on to the second point: there are seven specific traits here mentioned of God being worthy to receive. They are:

• Power
• Wealth
• Wisdom
• Might
• Honor
• Glory
• Blessing

If we are supposed to assume, from Joe Riddle's interpretation of "wealth," that these are things we give to God, then we must likewise presume, in order to be consistent, that all the other traits are things we likewise give to God. Do we therefore give God power? Do we give God wisdom? Do we give God might, honor, glory and blessing? Remember, these are all nouns, not verbs (we cannot say "glory" means "to give glory," as we would in prayer or thanksgiving). We would have to presume that God is somehow lacking in wisdom, or might, or honor, and so He would require this from us. I hope the reader will forgive me for what may be lazy Bible study, but permit me here to say that I am certain most Christians would recognize God is not lacking in any of those, and needs them from no one, therefore there is no need for me to present scriptural evidence for the positive case.

What, therefore, is the context of this passage? It would help to notice that the wording in this version is making reference to a common rabbinical way of describing God: that He has power, wealth, wisdom, might, honor, glory and blessing. These are traits God possesses, and which He is worthy of possessing. It is worth noting that, as this verse is speaking of Christ (the "Lamb who was slain"), this passage is a good example to prove the divinity of Christ is taught in scripture.

In any case, what is the "wealth" spoken of in this verse? The root word for wealth (πλοῦτος) can also refer to "abundance," which can be used for earthly or spiritual things. In the context of that which God has, we know that God isn't like the dragon Smaug, sitting atop a mountain somewhere cuddling with a huge pile of gold. Rather, scripture always speaks of God's gifts in a spiritual context, either having an abundance of something or presenting something to humanity in abundance. We can clearly see this in other verse which speak of God's riches or gifts, such as Romans 2:4, Ephesians 1:7, 1:18, 2:7, 3:8 and 3:16, Colossians 1:27 and 2:2, Hebrews 11:26, or James 1:17. It is also worth noting that, in the New Testament, whenever πλοῦτος is used in regards to earthly riches, it is almost always in a negative context (see Mt 13:22; Mk 4:19; Lk 8:14; Jas 5:2, etc.), whereas when it is spoken of in regards to spiritual riches, it is always in a positive context (see especially 1 Tim 6:17). 

So is Revelation 5:12 about us giving money to Wave Church, let alone any church? No, it's not. The wealth spoken of here is God's wealth, and that which He lovingly bestows upon those who call upon His name. They are freely given, and they are given out of love and gracious providence. They do not require giving, tithing, or any other "if/then" statement. Keep in mind that I am not writing Christians shouldn't give or support their local church, only that this verse does not speak of such a thing, and to distract people from the context of this verse is to distract them from the love and beneficence of God. It turns something which God possesses in full to something that is required of us to do.

As usual, the leadership of Wave Church are not afraid to abuse the context of scripture to obtain money from their congregation and followers. They are the false teachers whom the apostle Peter warned would, out of greed, exploit their people with false words (cf. 2 Pe 2:3). Those attending Wave Church I would exhort to leave, and never look back. Flee from the wolves, and seek a Bible-honoring church in which you can grow and be edified.

Podcast: Steve Kelly and God Visions

Here is the latest podcast, in which I review a Steve Kelly sermon talking about how we can obtain and keep our "God vision."


Here is the link to my podcast on Steve Kelly's cultic teachings regarding church leadership.

How I Affected Wave Church's Blog Combox

How did I affect Wave Church's combox? I essentially helped it cease to exist.

How did this come about? Well, I was reading the post regarding the second day of Wave Church's Daniel Fast, when I saw what I perceived to be an erroneous application of Matthew 21 to try to teach somewhat therapeutic theology. Thankfully, I saved a screenshot of my comment, and I'll post the pic below:

Unfortunately, what I didn't save was a brief conversation I had with one person who responded and said that we "put 2 and 2 together" [sic] and learn that we move the mountains of our life. I responded by pointing out that Christ is talking about a literal mountain here, and that he's simply referring to a mountain to show the disciples that a fig tree is nothing when it comes to deep faith in God. When I went to the blog later on, I saw that not only had the whole conversation been deleted...but that all comments had been disabled for all posts.

As I discussed in my second podcast, Steve Kelly compared offense in Christ to offense in lead pastors, and the idea of even just honestly questioning your lead pastor was seen as the highest sin, one for which God will spit in your face. People have been disciplined or kicked out of Wave Network churches for simply questioning their pastor on a decision or statement. Clearly, what I did here was offend Der Fuehrer...I mean...God's anointed.

Steve Kelly and Wave Church - Cultic Teachings on Leadership

The following is a link to my podcast reviewing the sermon "Is Your Destiny Connected to Your Leader?", by Steve Kelly of Wave Church in Virginia Beach, VA.


This link leads to the email exchange between myself and Wave Church Associate Pastor Clayton Ritter on December 30, 2012.

The following is a copy of the email sent to me by Frank Rue (shared with his permission).

from:		Frank Rue
to:		Tony-Allen
date:		Thu, May 16, 2013 at 10:58 PM
subject:		Re: Greetings; Wave Church Tony-Allen - We were given an audio cassette (it was a while ago, haha) of "Your Destiny is Connected To Your Leader", and it was much more direct than the more recent one you've mentioned. The more recent one is a lot more tame. I wish I could dig up the old one, but it is not available anymore. My wife was the Executive Administrator for our church in New Jersey, and our church was the church in the Wave Network that was responsible for making most of their materials, including the Network Church Handbook. I still have copies of the handbook, electronically, and it contains the requirement of listening to the original "Your Destiny is Connected to Your Leader" language. This requirement is for leaders of the church (pastors on down through small group leaders). The handbook is certainly something I can dig up, if you think it would be worth the time. When our pastors in New Jersey were caught in adultery, Steve Kelly himself came up and gave a "talk" wherein he said anyone who went against him or the elders was using witchcraft and manipulation to divide the church, and to have nothing to do with them. Also, when I had a disagreement with the pastor earlier in my time there, my wife and I were shunned until we "repented" and apologized to the pastor and then publicly for having "gone astray". No, we didn't sin—we literally just disagreed with and spoke up about it to the pastors directly. For that we were branded "rebellious" and "arrogant", and people were told we were "working through things" and we "needed to be left alone". Further, our pastor's wife (also considered a pastor) spoke on being a "Prodigal". She equated the story of the Prodigal Son in the bible to the idea that a person sometimes makes bad choices, turns away from the church (read: gets kicked out), and cannot be contacted at all until they are pitifully begging for forgiveness, at the end of their rope and totally broken. My wife personally was contacted by a former church member once (who we did not know was kicked out) and, upon asking her small group leader about what to do, was told NOT to respond to the former church member and to ignore her so she wouldn't be "sucked into her hurtful world", or something of that sort.  I know of a particular ex-military leader who once participated at many Wave Network events as a speaker. He once questioned something Steve Kelly said whilst at a Network Pastor's Breakfast, was reprimanded, and then was ostracized by all of the pastors in the network over the next 6 months. Effectively, no one had him speak any longer at any of their events or churches, and he was forced to find another outlet for his ministry. When he called to ask Steve Kelly what happened, he was gruffly refused by the administrative staff and told that Steve Kelly didn't have time for his phone calls. This is all common practice among the Wave Network churches (and Hillsong churches, for that matter), Wave itself, and our former church. It is almost exclusively the reason for the label "cult", frankly, though there are a number of other reasons which more than qualify the "churches" for such a moniker. Hope this helps! Frank

This link sends you to Frank Rue's Disconnect Church blog. It mostly covers The Connect Church, which is part of the Wave Network, but many of the issues are the same.

This link sends you to Frank Rue's Diakonos blog. Plenty of posts here are well worth the read. Of particular interest, in regards to this topic, is his Cult of Personalities post.

First Podcast - Steve Kelly and "Naming your harvest"

Below is a link to my first podcast at a little web show I'm trying. It will essentially be an extension of this blog.

In this episode, I examine a sermon by Steve Kelly of Wave Church, in Virginia Beach, VA. Does it hold up to the light of scripture? Listen and find out.