A Charlie Brown Reformation Day

Just a goofy little video I made for today. Enjoy.

Christians and Halloween

Matt Slick presents (I believe) a very balanced view on the subject. The link can be found here.

I had a prophetic dream!

Hey hey hey! So I had a prophetic dream! Wanna hear it? Here it is!

So, I was in a church, right? And there are these people singing! And they're all dressed as chickens, but there was one guy that was dressed as a moose. Well, I didn't feel right, because usually chickens and moose don't get along, so I tried to get out, but then I saw a Nazi soldier in a coffin. And then the Nazi soldier jumped out, and he multiplied into more Nazis, and they formed a chorus line, and came at me. I fought them off for a while with my pinky finger, because it morphed into a sword, right? But eventually they overcame me and tossed me down a well behind the altar.

I fell and I fell, until finally I landed in a pool of oatmeal. Well I ate all the oatmeal, and then I had to use the bathroom, and I found one nearby, but someone knocked on the door and suddenly I didn't have to go. So I left, and I was walking through a tunnel, and that's when I found a flower. It was like a rose, but it was blue. Then it changed to orange. Then it changed to indigo. And he said to me, "My name is Indigo Montoya." Then it wasn't even a flower any more, it was a Ferrari. And I got in and drove through the tunnel, and then I got pulled over by an elephant on a unicycle and he gave me a ticket, and it was a golden ticket, which meant I could go to Willy Wonka's chocolate factory.

So I go to the chocolate factory, and I enter the front doors, right? And there's this long hallway, and it's kinda dark, but there's a light up ahead. Well, I start walking up, and who should be up ahead but Jesus Christ! I couldn't believe it! I froze in place! The fear of the Lord 'n stuff came over me! And Jesus began to approach me, right? And he got closer, and closer, but didn't say anything. I was frozen! Yeah I was! And he got closer, and closer.

Finally the Lord spoke, and he said, "You're dreaming dreams."

"Yes, Lord!" I said, looking about at my surroundings. "What is this?"

And the Lord spoke, in a much louder voice, and the Lord said, "This is why you shouldn't mix Dr. Pepper with Tylenol PM."

I think the overall meaning of this little "prophetic dream" is that we shouldn't rely on the rambling dreams of people who claim to be prophesying directly from God. Let us rely on the word of God as our authority. God bless.

Phil Johnson and "Heaven Is for Real"

The following is an article written by Phil Johnson regarding the book Heaven Is for Real and the general trend in afterlife tall tales.

The Burpo-Malarkey Doctrine

Catholic versus Roman Catholic

The following is from Alpha and Omega Ministries.

Frank Beckwith recently wrote:

One of my pet peeves is the intentional overuse of "Rome," "Roman," "Romanist," etc. by Protestant critics of Catholic theology. Here's why: the Catholic Church is a collection of many churches in communion with the Bishop of Rome. It's catechism--The Catechism of the Catholic Church--is that of all these churches that are in communion with one another and with the Supreme Pontiff, Pope Benedict XVI. The theology found in that text, therefore, is not Roman Catholic theology. It is Catholic theology. That's the way the Church understands itself. Common courtesy suggests that those who are critical of that theology summon the respect to refer to it as such.

Please note what was said: all these churches "in communion with" whom? "The Bishop of Rome." Not the bishop of Constantinople, Naples, London, or Milwaukee. Rome. A local church that did not even have a monarchical episcopate until the middle of the second century. A single local church that has been, through a long process of political development elevated to the point of claiming infallibility for her teachings. A church that claims for herself any number of grossly unbiblical titles, privileges and powers. It is the Roman Church that makes these claims.

What happens when you drop the delimiter "Roman"? You are left with exactly what Rome claims for herself: universal sovereignty. The "catholic" church is not centered in Rome. Its theology and beliefs are not defined by Rome. And in fact, she can never defect from the gospel truth, no matter how hard Rome may press her to do so (and she has surely done so in the past). This is the very goal Rome has, the acknowledgement of her as universal sovereign, the Mother of all Churches, the Catholic Church. But the fact is, Rome is none of these things, and she is surely not truly "catholic."

So may I suggest that "common courtesy" would restrain the Roman Pontiffs from making the wild, extravagant claims they have made for themselves and their man-made office? May I suggest it is the follower of Rome who should summon the respect to refrain from arrogantly claiming sovereignty for his church over those who refuse to bow the knee to the Roman see? [source]

Further Meditations on Providence

Several months ago, I watched the Japanese film Nankyoku Monogatari, more well known in the west as Antarctica. The film tells the true story of the 1958 Japanese expedition to Antarctica, which ended abruptly due to horrible weather. With the situation getting worse and worse, the crew was eventually forced to abandon Showa Base, and evacuate everyone on the last available ship. The personnel included two dog handlers, who led a team of fifteen karafuto dogs. The handlers left the dogs behind with the understanding that a second team was coming to pick them up. Soon, however, they received terrible news: the weather was delaying the second team, and the ship was running out of supplies...they would have to leave the dogs behind. The sled team was thus left in the face of an oncoming blizzard, chained up and outside in the harsh cold.

Eleven months went by before another expedition was called to return to Showa Base, and the two dog handlers went along to collect what they thought would be the bodies of all the dogs. Seven of the dogs were sadly found dead, still tied to their chains. Eight dogs had managed to break free, but six had gone missing in the wilderness. Yet to the amazement of all present, two of the dogs - Taro and Jiro - were found alive and well! Jiro would go on to participate in another expedition, dying in 1960, while Taro continued to live until he passed away at the age of 15 in 1970. To this day there is a memorial to all fifteen dogs in Tokyo.

Source of Image

It is a great movie, but at the same time definitely not an easy one to watch - especially if you're a dog lover. Although I already knew the historical back story and was already aware which dogs would live, that didn't make the death scenes of the other six any less painful. At the end, where the two dogs go running happily to the dog handlers, the two groups embracing one another in the snow, you can't help but cry tears of joy. Even now, several months after seeing the film, I can't listen to the excellent theme by Vangelis without thinking of that scene and choking up.

No one knows exactly how Taro and Jiro managed to survive, or what precisely happened to the other six dogs. The film takes much liberty in explaining this gap, but captures well the hazards and cruel settings of Antarctica. The glaciers shift, wild animals attack, and the entire continent is covered in darkness for almost six months - for all intents and purposes, none of the dogs should have survived. They should have all been dead. A stray dog might be able to survive a harsh winter in a city where food and possible support are plentiful, but Antarctica has a winter unlike any known elsewhere, and food (if not life itself) can become immensely scarce. If anything, the six months during which Antarctica is covered in darkness should have been enough to bring about an end to all the dogs. Instead, for whatever reason, Taro and Jiro managed to survive long enough before they were rescued.

Let me pause to preemptively answer the question: do I believe in "doggy heaven"? Yes and no. I don't believe in a heaven for animals like you see in movies such as All Dogs Go to Heaven, nor do I believe in apocryphal ideas like "the rainbow bridge"; I do, however, believe that animals will have a part to play in the resurrection and God's renewed creation. I don't go any further on this than scripture explains, regardless of the emotional tugs at my heart which may demand I fill in the gaps. All the same, I enjoy the teaching of many Church Fathers that animals are an earthly sign of God's attributes. Animals are certainly used throughout scripture either as instruments of judgment (2 Ki 17:24-25), or as symbols of ideas such as faithful loyalty (Isa 1:3) or providential support (Luke 12:24).

If this notion is the case, then the story of Taro and Jiro is one amazing symbol of God's providence. Of all the dogs, these two brothers were not only given the power to break free from their chains, but were given just enough guidance, food and strength to survive the harshest and most unforgiving region in the world for eleven months. God could have willed that all fifteen would be found chained up and dead, but, according to His will and purpose, He saved two.

In short, I'm not amazed that most of the dogs didn't survive Antarctica...I'm amazed any survived.

Prayer and Prophetic Conference Tweets

Recently, the International House of Prayer had a Prayer and Prophetic Conference in their home territory of Kansas City. I watched the events in Thursday evening and, feeling inspired, decided to tweet my responses as things went along. I ended up tweeting a lot during the three days that the event unfolded. It was a good experience, and though I won't claim I "shook the heavens," I did get in some brief conversations with some people who work at IHOP-KC, as well as some people who had either left IHOP-KC or lost friends over IHOP-KC.

I thought for fun, I would share the tweets I made those days. The schedule can be found here.

October 11

NOTE: The following were in response to filler videos they were webstreaming before the conference events. They were a combination of interviews with Mike Bickle, round-table discussions held with members of IHOP-KC's staff, and interviews with individual leaders within IHOP-KC.

4:29 PM - Everyone in the New Testament spoke in tongues? So Paul was lying in 1 Cor 12:30? #IHOPKC

4:39 PM - "If it's not written in the Bible, I don't care." #mikebickle #ihopkc Then as John Owen once noted, why bother with revelation and prophecy?

4:58 PM - Why do Dominionists use "seven mountains"? Do they understand that has negative connotations in scripture? (Rev 17:9) #dominionism

5:00 PM - "Who knows when the Lord's returning..." #mikebickle You've openly said it'll happen within the next generation or the next several decades.

5:08 PM - "The Lord spoke to me and said..." Well then write it down and put it after Revelation, we have a new book of scripture. #ihopkc

5:14 PM - "Christ wants the church united." #mistyedwards I'm sorry, but Rom 16:17 forbids me from uniting with #ihopkc

5:18 PM - I can't help but feel, as I watch video after video, that one can basically idolize the prayer room. #ihopkc

NOTE: The following were tweeted while I was watching the Worship part of the day's events.

7:27 PM - There's an "Anna Anointing"? I don't recall Luke writing about that. #ThingsNotInTheBible #mikebickle #ihopkc

7:32 PM - "Sometimes Isaiah hides from me..." #mikebickle #PrayerProphetic He doesn't want his words misused.

7:36 PM - Isaiah 58:10 is about the prophetic ministry? That's incredible eisegesis. Isaiah is calling for repentance #mikebickle #PrayerProphetic

7:40 PM - Why does #ihopkc keep acting as if they're the new Temple? Do they know what happened to the LAST two...?

8:08 PM - How many times can one repeat a lyric? #PrayerProphetic

NOTE: At this point, the worship music stopped and we began to hear of a "prophecy" from Julie Meyer, namely a dream saying how God was blessing IHOP-KC. 

8:10 PM - Now we have someone talking about their dreams, which supposedly came from God. Jeremiah 23:28, any one? #PrayerProphetic #ihopkc

8:13 PM - "You shall not listen to the words of that prophet or that dreamer of dreams...God is testing you" (Deu 13:3) #PrayerProphetic #ihopkc

8:16 PM - "They have seen false visions and lying divinations...the LORD has not sent them" (Eze 13:6) #PrayerProphetic #ihopkc

8:19 PM - Should we welcome all "prophecies" of good things to come for our ventures? 1 Kings 22:19-23 says otherwise. #PrayerProphetic #ihopkc

NOTE: The following was tweeted during Session 2, done by Allen Hood.

8:28 PM - At the beginning of this sermon, we already have eisegesis into Song of Songs 1:3-4. #PrayProphetic #ihopkc

8:32 PM - We're doing some serious verse jumping. I've lost my place. #PrayerProphetic #ihopkc

8:37 PM - Did we just get Eph 3:16 turned into quid quo pro? #PrayerProphetic #ihopkc

9:53 PM - I'm sure when Christ warned about "many words" in prayer (Mt 6:7), he also meant repeating a lyric fifty times #PrayerProphetic #ihopkc

October 12

2:34 PM - There is a thin line between concert and worship. #PrayerProphetic #ihopkc

2:41 PM - They just plugged "Growing in the Prophetic." I highly suggest it for eisegesis lessons. #PrayerProphetic #ihopkc

2:42 PM - David Brainerd is rolling over in his grave. #PrayerProphetic #ihopkc

NOTE: They had just mentioned Jonathan Edwards's book on David Brainerd.

2:43 PM - They just mentioned Jonathan Edwards. Now I'm rolling over in my grave, and I'm not dead. #PrayerProphetic #ihopkc

2:43 PM - Now a "7 Commitments of a Forerunner" plug - Also a book that's a fine example of eisegesis. #PrayerProphetic #ihopkc

NOTE: The following tweets were in response to Session 4, given by Brian Kim.

2:51 PM - Isaiah 42 is about what God is doing in #ihopkc ? Does Isaiah know that? #PrayerProphetic

2:51 PM - "That's kinda crazy!" Yeah it is. #briankim #PrayerProphetic #ihopkc

NOTE: I forget the exact context of the previous tweet, but I'm guess it had something to do with IHOP-KC's warped eschatology.

2:55 PM - "Worldwide intercession movement" - Where is that in scripture? #PrayerProphetic #ihopkc

NOTE: I actually received a response to this from "danielprays," which I found out was the Twitter account of Daniel Lim, CEO of the International House of Prayer and someone I've reviewed on this blog before. He pointed me towards Malachi 1:11, Luke 18:1-8, and 1 Thessalonians 5:17. I pointed out that Malachi 1:11 was about the Gentiles (as often "nations" means in the Old Testament) coming into the fold, causing the Jews Malachi was speaking with to become jealous (hence the "for" at the start of the verse). I pointed out that Luke 18:1-8 was about why we should "pray and not lose heart," as v. 1 says plainly, not about a worldwide intercession movement. I pointed out that 1 The 5:17 was simply telling us to pray without ceasing, not speaking about any specific movement. Obviously I didn't say all this in so many words given the limitation of Twitter, but it was the gist of what I said. Since then, the tweets sent to me by Daniel Lim have disappeared. I didn't delete them and I haven't blocked him - I don't know if he deleted them, or Twitter went buggy. Either way, when you go to my Twitter account and go to this date, you'll see me talking to him, but without any of his original tweets.

2:57 PM - We've established the existence of our theology before looking at scripture. That can be a very dangerous thing. #PrayerProphetic #ihopkc

3:02 PM - "Get ready to sing"-that's not in Isa 42:10-13. It's talking about what we should do now, even during Isaiah's life #PrayerProphetic #ihopkc

3:04 PM - Col 3:16 does not say we teach one another by songs. It says we teach AND sing. Separate things. #PrayerProphetic #ihopkc

3:15 PM - "You who go down to the sea, and all that fills it, the coastlands and their inhabitants"-How is this islands? #PrayerProphetic #ihopkc

NOTE: In fairness, the Hebrew word used here for "coastlands" can mean "islands." My main contention was towards the application of this verse to the specific work of IHOP-KC, as if Isaiah was predicting that. Isaiah, in the full context of the verse, is actually talking about merchants on the coasts of ancient Israel, who would sail to places like Malta, Cyprus, Crete, etc. It isn't about IHOP-KC missionaries going to Pacific islands.

3:16 PM - "My mentor Lou Engle..." Well there's your first problem! #PrayerProphetic #ihopkc

3:18 PM - OK, no really, how is Isa 42:10-12 about #ihopkc missionaries? #PrayerProphetic

NOTE: The following are in response to filler videos again.

4:08 PM - I don't doubt people in need are being helped, and while that's good...at what cost? #PrayerProphetic #ihopkc

4:19 PM - I've got it - #ihopkc eschatology is essentially impatient postmillennialism.

4:49 PM - "Jesus...probably will return in my lifetime." Didn't he say no one knows the day or the hour? (Mk 13:32) #PrayerProphetic #ihopkc

NOTE: The following tweets are in response to the musical performance.

6:09 PM - What do Wayne Newton, Ray Charles, and the Prayer Room have in common? Three young female backup singers. #PrayerProphetic #ihopkc

6:15 PM - Writing worship songs seems so easy. I don't know why Charles Wesley spent so much time writing so many lyrics. #PrayerProphetic #ihopkc

6:28 PM - When we sing, are we looking for a "spiritual high," or for edification? #PrayerProphetic #ihopkc

6:52 PM - I feel sad for the worship singers. They look incredibly exhausted. I pray they are freed from this yoke. #PrayerProphetic #ihopkc

NOTE: At this point the band was starting to ease out the music, and they started praying for healing miracles.

6:59 PM - Now we're cold calling. Peter Popoff would be proud. #PrayerProphetic #ihopkc

7:03 PM - I don't know why Paul told Timothy to have wine for his ailments (1 Tim 5:23) - just go to a conference. #PrayerProphetic #ihopkc

7:11 PM - "One time Jesus didn't heal instantaneously." There was a purpose for that. Don't try to cover your poor theology. #PrayerProphetic #ihopkc

7:17 PM - I have a healing to report. I had a paper cut earlier, and it hurt, but now it's not there. #PrayerProphetic #ihopkc

7:25 PM - "I put my hand over my eye and claimed it." Some form of name it and claim it theology just confirmed. #PrayerProphetic #ihopkc

7:30 PM - Why is it at these faith healings, it's always conditions you can't readily see or notice? #PrayerProphetic #ihopkc

7:33 PM - Even if signs, wonders and healings are done, is that enough to accept it all? No - theology matters. (Deu 13:1-3) #PrayerProphetic #ihopkc

NOTE: Here they started warming up into Session 5, given by Mike Bickle regarding the Lord's Prayer.

7:53 PM - If the Lord is directly moving #ihopkc then those who oppose them are opposing God. #PrayerProphetic

7:56 PM - The first Temple was destroyed by the Babylonians; the second Temple was obliterated by the Romans. #PrayerProphetic #ihopkc

8:06 PM - Isa 62:6 has generally been understood as generally ministers of the Gospel, not specifically "intercessors" #PrayerProphetic #ihopkc

8:09 PM - Wait, did Isa 62:6 just become used to ask for donations? #PrayerProphetic #ihopkc

NOTE: For those who are curious about the context in the previous tweet, this is what happened. Isaiah 62:6 was cited, and the part regarding the watchmen on the walls was emphasized. During the prayer before the collection plates were passed around, the IHOP-KC official basically asked God to "raise up watchmen" to answer the needs of the ministry. In other words, if you want to be a watchman like God wants, you better donate.

8:27 PM - Just a thought - what would have happened if Mike Bickle backed up his text to Mt 6:7? #PrayerProphetic #ihopkc

8:55 PM - Ah, here's our first plug for the house of prayer movement. #PrayerProphetic #ihopkc

9:03 PM - Rev 2:1-5 says Ephesus was heavily missionary but didn't pray enough? Where is that in the verses? #PrayerProphetic #ihopkc

9:04 PM - "Why does God want to talk to me?" #mikebickle Given the abuse of scripture, it can't be God talking to you. #PrayerProphetic #ihopkc

9:10 PM - Where exactly does the Lord's Prayer say God's will being done and kingdom coming are dependent upon us? #PrayerProphetic #ihopkc

9:23 PM - I see people walking forward, and part of me desires to see people walking out. #PrayerProphetic ihopkc

9:24 PM - Cue manipulative use of music. #PrayerProphetic #ihopkc

9:30 PM - I am praying, though for different reasons. But it is also for all those in that room right now. #PrayerProphetic #ihopkc

October 13

NOTE: Here I came in during Misty Edwards's lecture for Session 4. My fiance was actually watching with me for this session.

2:44 PM - Somewhere in the Middle East, Isaiah is rolling over in his grave. #PrayerProphetic #ihopkc

2:46 PM - Listening to #mistyedwards speaks, I can't help but think about 1 Ti 2:12 and 1 Co 14:34 #PrayerProphetic #ihopkc

2:51 PM - Can't go far in an #ihopkc sermon without the Book of Revelation being mentioned. #PrayerProphetic

2:55 PM - I'm hearing a lot of bold eschatology and very little scriptural exposition. This isn't instruction and edification #PrayerProphetic #ihopkc

3:09 PM - Funny thing about the tribulation, John said he was a "partner in the tribulation" (Re 1:9) It's existed a while #PrayerProphetic #ihopkc

3:12 PM - I can't help but feel many times eschatology supersedes soteriology. #PrayerProphetic #ihopkc

3:23 PM - My fiance on this lecture: "I have no idea what she's talking about." #PrayerProphetic #ihopkc

3:26 PM - We're not expositing God's word, we're expositing someone's dream. Jer 23:28 #PrayerProphetic #ihopkc

3:37 PM - Baptize their hearts, O Lord, for them to see the true "crisis of truth" among them. #PrayerProphetic #ihopkc

NOTE: Here I began tweeting during the worship music.

6:04 PM - Surely there are other lyrics to this song. #PrayerProphetic #ihopkc

6:05 PM - Tonight's topic: "What the Spirit is Saying about the Church" - the Spirit has already spoken in scripture. #PrayerProphetic #ihopkc

6:13 PM - Tonight Mike Bickle is going to touch on Acts 2. I wrote on his misunderstanding of it http://bit.ly/SOiv9w  #PrayerProphetic #ihopkc

6:14 PM - To summarize the last tweet: read the context and history - it's about Pentecost and Jerusalem destroyed by Romans. #PrayerProphetic #ihopkc

6:38 PM - Screaming for God to do something while singing nonstop - didn't the Priests of Baal do that? #PrayerProphetic #ihopkc

6:41 PM - OK, I'm serious - is this singing or chanting? #PrayerProphetic #ihopkc

6:47 PM - This is neither Christian singing nor worship. This is New Age inspired, meditation, repetitive nonsense. #PrayerProphetic #ihopkc

6:49 PM - If you want to "know what God's thinking" and "don't know," you're in luck - God put it in His writ, it's all here. #PrayerProphetic #ihopkc

6:52 PM - "God is raising up sons of thunder" - Wasn't that meant as a semi-insult against John? #PrayerProphetic #ihopkc

NOTE: I actually corrected myself here. The idea that the "sons of thunder" title may have been an insult was from their suggestion that fire be rained down on a Samaritan village that rejected Jesus (Luke 9:54), however most commentators believe it to be in reference to their zeal in preaching.

6:57 PM - Work up the crowd by music, then speak to them with messages. This is like a political rally. Emotion-driven #PrayerProphetic #ihopkc

7:03 PM - Some of this singing reminds me of Dr. Moreau. "That is the Law, are we not men? That is the Law, are we not men?" #PrayerProphetic #ihopkc

7:05 PM - I should take my Bible and sing, "I am reading, reading. I am reading, reading. I am reading, reading..." #PrayerProphetic #ihopkc

7:07 PM - Ah, the cold calling healing. Here we go... #PrayerProphetic #ihopkc

7:09 PM - Is Vangelis the worship leader? #PrayerProphetic #ihopkc

7:14 PM - "Excuse me - what does God need with a musical kick?" #williamshatner #PrayerProphetic #ihopkc

7:22 PM - Surely they're baptized already. Are we Anabaptists? #PrayerProphetic #ihopkc

7:26 PM - "A revelation of the zeal of your love." He already showed you. It's called the cross. #PrayerProphetic #ihopkc

7:29 PM - We're hearing a testimony of what Jesus has done through #ihopkc . Usually testimonies are about what Jesus did alone. #PrayerProphetic

7:31 PM - "What better way to know God than a 24/7 prayer place?" How about the grace of the Spirit? The power of the word? #PrayerProphetic #ihopkc

7:34 PM - "If Jesus is real, this is what Christianity should look like." Upon what basis? #PrayerProphetic #ihopkc

7:36 PM - Testimony similarities: no real faith before; they desired "more"; #ihopkc solved all their problems #PrayerProphetic

7:47 PM - "The Lord is putting on our hearts..." in olden times, that was called scripture. #PrayerProphetic #ihopkc

7:48 PM - Leaving the prayer room webcast on is a blessing? That's borderline idolatry. #PrayerProphetic #ihopkc

7:52 PM - Having the relic of a saint is a blessing. Having the prayer room playing is a blessing. How is either different? #PrayerProphetic #ihopkc

7:53 PM - "Supernaturally provide" - ie., don't worry, give as much as possible, God will foot the bill. #PrayerProphetic #ihopkc

NOTE: The following are the tweets during the final session, Session 8, done by Mike Bickle.

8:02 PM - "What is the Spirit saying to/about the church?" Read the Bible. #PrayerProphetic #ihopkc

8:05 PM - Why is Isa 60:2 about the end times? One could say it was fulfilled in Mt 4:13-16. Plus there's no "deep darkness." #PrayerProphetic #ihopkc

8:05 PM - I posted this earlier, but again - examining Bickle's misuse of Joel 2/Acts 2 http://bit.ly/SOiv9w  #PrayerProphetic #ihopkc

8:07 PM - "We do not honor a dream or vision that doesn't honor the written word of God." That is false. #PrayerProphetic #ihopkc

8:07 PM - "No one knows that day or hour, but we're in that generation." Ah, semantics. #PrayerProphetic #ihopkc

8:12 PM - #mikebickle warning us about false religions is a bit like Stalin warning us about Hitler. #PrayerProphetic #ihopkc

8:13 PM - "The Lord visited me in Cairo..." - RUN. RUN RUN RUN. RUN AWAY. #PrayerProphetic #ihopkc

8:17 PM - How does one know the difference between fake and fluff declarations of what God has said? #PrayerProphetic #ihopkc

8:19 PM - "I'm going to change Christianity." That's what God told Joseph Smith initially, too... #PrayerProphetic #ihopkc

8:21 PM - Did God not have the foreknowledge to know about the future lawsuits from the already trademarked IHOP? #PrayerProphetic #ihopkc

8:25 PM - Eph 5:27 is about our glorification by God's justification and purification, not an end-time state. #PrayerProphetic #ihopkc

8:29 PM - Mal 4:5-6 is about John the Baptist, not us or something we have to do (Mt 17:12; Mk 9:13) #PrayerProphetic #ihopkc

8:30 PM - "We don't know what 'generation' means." Sure, if you ignore the context the readers understood it as. #PrayerProphetic #ihopkc

8:32 PM - The "great and dreadful day of the Lord" is the destruction of Jerusalem by the Romans. #PrayerProphetic #ihopkc

8:40 PM - #mikebickle misuses 1 Co 12:31. Paul is talking about those with the gifts of prophecy, not everyone #PrayerProphetic #ihopkc #context

8:51 PM - Acts 3 is not on Israel restored. It's calling the listeners to repent. Not all from Abraham are of him (Rom 9:7) #PrayerProphetic #ihopkc

8:55 PM - Some truth is being presented. A pity it is being done so in the midst of so much error. #PrayerProphetic #ihopkc

8:58 PM - Regarding Bickle's notes: Jer 23:20 is not about forerunners, but the Babylonian invasion and warnings clear then. #PrayerProphetic #ihopkc

9:02 PM - I do pray now - that those in it may see the error and flee, casting off their yoke. Amen, amen. #PrayerProphetic #ihopkc

9:02 PM - Such manipulative use of music. This truly does make me sad. Help them see through it, Lord. #PrayerProphetic #ihopkc

9:04 PM - Do not pray for dreams or visions, Christian - simply pray for sanctification, and thank God for your justification #PrayerProphetic #ihopkc

IHOP-KC and Acts 2

Introduction

Among many of the favorite passages of scripture used by International House of Prayer founder Mike Bickle is the prophecy found in the second chapter of the Book of Joel and used again by Peter in the second chapter of the Acts of the Apostles. From here, Bickle draws inspiration for his "prophetic ministry," as well as his beliefs regarding the end times (which he believes will happen within the next generation at the most). Here is a sample from Mike Bickle himself:

When the prophetic ministry flourishes, it is often confirmed by signs and wonders. In his sermon on the Day of Pentecost, Peter quoted the Joel 2 promise for a last-days' revival. Of course, the last days began with the cross, the Resurrection, and the outpouring of the Holy Spirit on the Day of Pentecost. However, the complete fulfillment of the Joel 2 promises will be in the final decades of the last days - those years just prior to the second coming of Jesus, which I refer to as the "End Times."

The first half of the passage in Acts 2 speaks of the outpouring of the Spirit and the increase of prophetic revelation on the entire body of Christ:

And it shall come to pass in the last days, says God,
That I will pour out of My Spirit all flesh;
Your sons and your daughters shall prophesy;
Your young men shall see visions,
Your old men shall dream dreams.
And on My manservants and on My maidservants
I will pour out My Spirit in those days;
And they shall prophesy - Acts 2:17-18

The second half of the passage focuses on the great increase of the acts of God in nature:

I will show wonders in heaven above
And signs on the earth beneath:
Blood and fire and vapor of smoke.
The sun shall be turned into darkness,
And the moon into blood,
Before the coming of the great and awesome day of the Lord.
And it shall come to pass
That whoever calls on the name of the Lord
Shall be saved. - Acts 2:19-21

There is a specific order and sequence in the text: the outpouring of the Spirit, followed by the increase of the prophetic dreams and visions, followed by the occurring of confirming signs in the sky and on the earth. We have witnessed a few supernatural confirmations in nature of significant prophetic words. [pg. 11-12; Mike Bickle, Growing in the Prophetic, 2008 edition]

Bickle believes that these signs and wonders spoken about in Joel will increase as Christ's return draws near.

In the end times, the awesome signs and wonders in the heavens and on Earth prophesied in Acts 2:17-21 will be much greater than anything ever before seen in history. [pg. 21, Prophetic]

Bickle uses this teaching to emphasize the importance of "prophetic ministry" that he and others at IHOP-KC teach.

...the outpouring of the Spirit, the prophetic ministry, and the signs and wonders in nature are clearly a part of God's agenda for the End Times. God has ordained that the church needs the input of the prophetic ministry to stay properly encouraged and focused as well as to minimize unbelief that plagues so many ministries today. [pg. 22, Prophetic]

Bickle even believes that what is being spoken of in Joel 2 and Acts 2 is being fulfilled in the here and now.

We know that a "Great Awakening" is soon to sweep across our nations. Though many see no hope, no solution to the coming crisis, we look with confidence to God’s promises to pour out His Spirit on all flesh in the last days (Acts 2:17-21), when all nations will receive the witness of the kingdom with power (Mt. 24:14; Rev. 7:9). What a privilege to live in this awesome hour of history! [pg. 5; 7 Commitments of a Forereunner, 2009]

Many believe the words of Mike Bickle that "the church needs the input of the prophetic ministry." Thousands flock to the IHOP-KC prayer room every day, and countless more watch the live webcast of their prayer room at home. A former neighbor of mine had the webcast on every day, and even had it playing with the speakers directed out his windows, as if some kind of magical force was flowing from them. Someone at my last church who knew an IHOP-KC attendant said that she had it playing at her house nonstop. People have left their homes and traveled hundreds upon hundreds of miles to live in Kansas City, just to be close to this prayer room. Thousands flock to the conferences sponsored by IHOP-KC and associates such as Lou Engle. Its visitors are of many ages, but a large number of them are teenagers and young adults.

How legitimate is Bickle's exegesis of Acts 2? Does it really speak of an end times prophetic movement? Does it really speak of a great outpouring of the Holy Spirit at the end times? I thought it would be worth going over Acts 2 and examining what is really going on with Peter's sermon to the Jews. I recognize that, in doing so, I could cover a whole lot more than just IHOP-KC (Dispensationalism comes to mind), but for this post I will focus on Mike Bickle's own exegesis and teachings.

Analysis

First, we need to understand the immediate context that leads to Peter's quotation of Joel 2.

Now there were dwelling in Jerusalem Jews, devout men from every nation under heaven. And at this sound the multitude came together, and they were bewildered, because each one was hearing them speak in his own language. And they were amazed and astonished, saying, “Are not all these who are speaking Galileans? And how is it that we hear, each of us in his own native language? Parthians and Medes and Elamites and residents of Mesopotamia, Judea and Cappadocia, Pontus and Asia, Phrygia and Pamphylia, Egypt and the parts of Libya belonging to Cyrene, and visitors from Rome, both Jews and proselytes, Cretans and Arabians—we hear them telling in our own tongues the mighty works of God.” And all were amazed and perplexed, saying to one another, “What does this mean?” But others mocking said, “They are filled with new wine.”

But Peter, standing with the eleven, lifted up his voice and addressed them: "Men of Judea and all who dwell in Jerusalem, let this be known to you, and give ear to my words. For these people are not drunk, as you suppose, since it is only the third hour of the day. But this is what was uttered through the prophet Joel..." [Acts 2:5-16]

After the sending of the Holy Spirit, the apostles had begun speaking in tongues, shocking all present because each individual Jew (visiting from their home nation) heard the apostles speak in their own native tongues (signifying that these "tongues" were in fact foreign languages). Some started to disregard this, saying the apostles were just drunk, but then Peter speaks up. Note what Peter says: "This is what was uttered through the prophet Joel." What is the "this"? Peter is referring to the Day of Pentecost as the center of the Joel prophecy. Hence, immediate context of the Joel quote involved what was unfolding that day, and would have been applicable to those listening.

For certain, much of what is described by Peter happened in those times. Peter describes the Holy Spirit being poured out on all flesh - that happened at Pentecost with the Jews (Acts 2:4) and then with the Gentiles (Acts 10:44-45). Peter says their sons and daughters would prophesy - and indeed, men prophesied, as did many daughters, such as those of the evangelist Philip (Acts 21:9). Peter says young men shall see visions - and indeed, many did see visions (Acts 9:10, 10:3, 11:5). Peter says the old men shall dream dreams, and indeed, old men dreamed dreams (Acts 16:9, 18:9). Peter says men and woman shall prophesy, and indeed, people did so (Acts 11:28, 21:10-11). There's nothing from the immediate context of scripture that says this wasn't fulfilled in Peter's day.

Those at IHOP-KC would argue that they recognize the first part of the Joel prophecy could be related to Pentecost, but that the second half is related to future events. Mike Bickle's own handling of Joel 2 involves cutting it up, dividing it in the middle of verse 19. From this, he says that the "wonders in heaven and signs on the earth beneath" are about general wonders and signs, while the "blood and fire and vapor of smoke" are about specific future signs and wonders. However, no such division exists in Peter's original use. Peter quotes it as a single passage. Humorously enough, even the translation Mike Bickle uses treats it as a single thought. To quote from it:

I will show wonders in heaven above and signs on the earth beneath: blood and fire and vapor of smoke. [v. 19]

Note the colon there - what purpose does a colon serve, grammatically speaking? Colons serve either to explain, prove or list elements related to what preceded before it. What Bickle's own translation says is that the signs described by Joel involve "blood and fire and vapor of smoke."

Now granted, colons weren't present in the original Greek manuscripts, therefore some might call this contention a non sequitor. However, whether by using a colon, semi-colon, comma, or run-on sentence, most translators recognize that what Joel is doing here (and verse 20) is describing specific signs that will be seen in heaven and earth. By cutting verse 19 in two and dividing up the context, Bickle is manhandling the text to get it to say what he wants. Unless Bickle can claim he's seen "blood and fire and vapor of smoke," he can't attribute this to any signs or wonders he's seen to this passage. To do so is to read into the text what isn't there.

As we said earlier, many at IHOP-KC repeat what Bickle says, which is that half of the Joel prophecy (from "blood and fire, etc." onward) is about future events, and can't be about Pentecost because none of that happened at Pentecost. In some ways, they are right - it is about future events. However, it involves the near future, and it is still related to the Day of Pentecost, as I hope to explain shortly, and in this manner:

The apostles, on the Day of Pentecost, were addressing the Jews - the Gospel had not yet gone to the Gentiles, and God would not send anyone to the Gentiles until Acts 10, with Peter and Cornelius. Peter's quotation of Joel is important because when Joel says "in the last days," it was generally understood by most Jews (as John Gill discusses from Jewish sources) that this referred to the age of the Messiah. Hence, when Peter says this prophecy is being fulfilled in their midst, the Jews listening understood the significance.

Peter finishes the Joel quotation with: "And it shall come to pass that whoever calls on the name of the Lord shall be saved." He then - while still addressing the Jews - attests to the historic reality of Christ. Quoting from the ESV:

"Men of Israel, hear these words: Jesus of Nazareth, a man attested to you by God with mighty works and wonders and signs that God did through him in your midst, as you yourselves know—this Jesus, delivered up according to the definite plan and foreknowledge of God, you crucified and killed by the hands of lawless men. God raised him up, loosing the pangs of death, because it was not possible for him to be held by it." [Acts 2:22-24]

He goes on about the raising of Christ, and concludes regarding Christ's authority: "Let all the house of Israel therefore know for certain that God has made him both Lord and Christ, this Jesus whom you crucified" (v. 36). The Jews understand the significance of this as well - Peter is saying that Christ, whom many in Jerusalem believed to have died - was in fact the Messiah, and was now seated with authority on heaven and earth. Realizing this, they ask what they should do, to which Peter gives the call for repentance (v. 37-38). He then says that the promise of salvation is for "everyone whom the Lord our God calls to himself" (v. 39). Remember this part for later, as it will become relevant.

Then comes an important statement from the apostle:

And with many other words [Peter] bore witness and continued to exhort them, saying, "Save yourselves from this crooked generation." [Acts 2:40]

Who is "this crooked generation"? That has been a topic of debate for those who study eschatology, but given the immediate context and audience, it is clear that Peter is referring to that current Jewish generation. Moses had called the Jews of his time a "crooked and twisted generation" (Deu 32:5), and Jesus himself had referred to those in Peter's time as a faithless and twisted generation (Matt 17:17; Luke 9:41). Christ had likewise said: "This generation is an evil generation. It seeks for a sign, but no sign will be given to it except the sign of Jonah" (Luke 11:29). The sign of Jonah was Christ's being in the earth for three days and rising up to bring repentance to men (Matt 12:40). Peter had preached repentance, and now it was time for those in this "crooked generation" to repent.

Now we must ask this: when Peter says "save yourselves," what do they need to be saved from? Many might immediately respond that they need to be saved from the final judgment, and this would not be inaccurate. However, let's refer back to that second part Bickle referred to:

"I will show wonders in heaven above and signs on the earth beneath: blood and fire and vapor of smoke. The sun shall be turned into darkness, and the moon into blood, before the coming of the great and awesome day of the Lord. And it shall come to pass that whoever calls on the name of the Lord shall be saved." [Acts 2:19-21]

Remember, Mike Bickle divides up verse 19 and tries to separate the signs and wonders from the descriptions, but that isn't how the text reads - they correlate with one another. What specific signs and wonders does God intend to show? Blood, fire, vapor of smoke, the sun turning to darkness, the moon into blood, and all before the great and awesome day of the Lord. Again, unless Bickle wants to claim he's seen all of these already, he can't apply these verses to this day. It will be granted that Bickle often talks about miracles and signs he's witnessed, but none of them include the aforementioned signs. Therefore, they are irrelevant to this verse. I don't care if Bickle saw Bigfoot come down from heaven and completely heal Stephen Hawking with a bent seven iron while doing the hokey pokey - if it's not blood, fire, vapor of smoke, the sun turning to darkness, the moon into blood, etc...then it's not relevant to Joel 2/Acts 2.

In any case, the language used by Joel is obviously figurative language - unless someone wants to claim the moon is going to become a giant glob of plasma floating around the earth, we can't assume the prophet Joel is speaking literally. This is also obviously apocalyptic language, dealing with destruction compounded with woe, calamity and misery. The sun is not going to be darkened because there's a light switch God can flick whenever He wants, but because of the vapor and smoke mentioned before. In like manner, the moon will appear like blood because the vapor and smoke in the atmosphere will give it a reddish or orange tinge (this can be seen sometimes even today).

Now, what significance would this have to the Jews with whom Peter was talking, and how does this relate to what they would be saved from? These are all, in fact, talking about the approaching siege and destruction of Jerusalem, which was God's judgment upon the "crooked generation" for their rejection of the Messiah. The destruction of Jerusalem, and with it the Temple, was performed by Roman soldiers under Titus in 70 AD, nearly forty years after Pentecost. The Jews had rebelled against Roman rule in the mid-60's, but soon turned on one another, murdering and torturing fellow Jews as different factions made a bid for power. Thus when Titus arrived with his legions (the "armies" described in Luke 21:20) against Jerusalem, the city was already torn by conflict.

After a prolonged siege and great famine, the city fell and was obliterated. This great calamity, described by the Jewish historian Josephus (who was an eyewitness), saw the city and the Temple engulfed in flames. Roman soldiers left not one single stone of the Temple atop another, fulfilling the prophecy given by Christ (Matt 24:1-2). Aside from the loss of property, the loss of life was even greater, and although there exist no accurate estimates, they range anywhere from a hundred thousand to a million.

This was the "great and awesome day" of the Lord spoken of by Joel, for it was the day of judgment for the Jews who had rejected their Messiah. Even Josephus, who was shocked at the conduct of his own countrymen against one another, and who was certainly not a Christian, believed this was God's judgment.

"It is God, therefore, it is God himself who is bringing on this fire, to purge that city and temple by means of the Romans, and is going to pluck up this city, which is full of your pollutions." [Flavius Josephus, Wars of the Jews, Book VI, 1:5]

If we argue this is the "day of the Lord" spoken of by Joel, one might then ask about the following passage which says "whoever calls on the name of the Lord shall be saved." We should first wonder: what happened to the Jerusalem Christians we read about in Acts? Did they perish under the Romans? In fact, the Christians had left Jerusalem before the city fell. The famous church historian Eusebius accounts that the Christians in Jerusalem fled as soon as they found out the Romans were coming. As a result, the Jewish Christians were spared from the destruction of Jerusalem and what befell the unbelieving Jews therein.

But the people of the church in Jerusalem had been commanded by a revelation, vouchsafed to approved men there before the war, to leave the city and to dwell in a certain town of Perea called Pella... [Eusebius, Church History, Book III, 5:3]

It might be helpful to note here that, on the Day of Pentecost, Peter does not quote all of Joel's prophecy in full. This is not because Peter himself was playing with the text, but because he had given the full gist of it, and most Jews listening probably would have been able to fill in the blanks themselves. It is also because Peter indirectly refers to it later on. Let's review the full quotation of that section from Joel:

And it shall come to pass that everyone who calls on the name of the LORD shall be saved. For in Mount Zion and in Jerusalem there shall be those who escape, as the LORD has said, and among the survivors shall be those whom the LORD calls. [Joel 2:32]

Joel prophesies that "everyone who calls on the name of the LORD shall be saved," yes, but then adds: "For in Mount Zion and in Jerusalem there shall be those who escape...and among the survivors shall be those whom the LORD calls." Remember what Peter said in Acts 2:39? He had told the Jews to repent and be baptized and turn to Christ for forgiveness of their sins, then proclaims that the promise was for "everyone whom the Lord our God calls to himself." It is then, in the next verse, that Peter exhorts the Jews to save themselves from this crooked generation. This is a definite tie-in between the generation to whom Peter is preaching and the prophecies given by Joel. The Jews at Pentecost were to save themselves from the crooked generation because judgment was fast approaching upon that crooked generation.

And as it stood, God kept his promises for all parties involved. Those whom He had called were saved from the destruction that befell that crooked generation, but as for that crooked and faithless generation, they were judged. There was blood (from the massacre of Jerusalem's inhabitants), fire (across the city and in the temple), vapor of smoke (rising from the ruins), the sun turned into darkness (from the thick smoke) and the moon turned to blood (from the haze of the smoke). Joel 2's prophecy was fulfilled, as Peter had said it would be.

Conclusion

There are a few assumptions made by Bickle and others at IHOP-KC about what Joel 2 and Acts 2 teach, all of which are false.

1) God will perform natural signs and wonders in the prophetic church today: This is false, at least from the text Mike Bickle relies on. As demonstrated earlier, he comes to this conclusion by chopping up verse 19 and isolating each piece from the full context. This is a blatant mishandling of God's word that is unbecoming of a Christian leader.

2) God will perform other natural signs and wonders at the end times: This is false, and for reasons dealing with the previous section. The signs and wonders in heaven and earth and the blood, smoke and vapor mentioned by Joel are related to one another. There are not two separate groups of signs and wonders here - Mike Bickle has read that into the text by, again, mishandling God's word.

3) The latter half of the Joel prophecy is talking about the very end of days: This is also false. Given the immediate context of Peter's sermon in Acts, accompanied by what he says later and what we know from history, and how the orthodox Christian church has interpreted these verses up until the rise of Dispensationalism and other problematic theologies, Peter is warning the Jews to escape the approaching judgment upon their nation.

The prophecies in Joel refer to the Day of Pentecost, the era of the apostolic church, and the impending judgment of the Jewish nation. They had nothing to do with the church today - let alone do they have anything to do with Mike Bickle and his prophetic ministry.

Your average online discussion about religion...

All credits to the original artist.

Happy Birthday, Jonathan Edwards!

Today is the 309th anniversary of the birth of my favorite theologian, Jonathan Edwards. So, to celebrate, here's an excerpt from his book A History of the Work of Redemption.

God’s disappointing the design of building the city and tower of Babel belongs to the great work of redemption. For that was undertaken in opposition of this great building of God of which we are speaking. Men’s going about to build such a city and tower was an effect of the corruption into which mankind were now fallen. This city and tower was set up in opposition to the city of God, as the god to whom they built it, was their pride. Being sunk into a disposition to forsake the true God, the first idol they set up in his room, was their own fame. And as this city and tower had their foundation laid in the pride and vanity of men, and the haughtiness of their minds, so it was built on a foundation exceedingly contrary to the nature of the kingdom of Christ, and his redeemed city, which has its foundation laid in humility. Therefore God saw that it tended to frustrate the design of that great building which was founded in Christ’s humiliation: and therefore the thing displeased the Lord, and he baffled and confounded the design. God will frustrate and confound all other designs, that are set up in opposition to the great work of redemption.

Isaiah ii. representing God setting up the kingdom of Christ in the world, foretells how, in order to it, he will bring down the haughtiness of men, and how the day of the Lord shall be on every high tower, and upon every fenced wall, Christ’s kingdom is established, by bringing down every high thing to make way for it, 2 Cor. x. 4, 5. “For the weapons of our warfare are mighty through God, to the pulling down of strong holds, casting down imaginations, and every high thing that exalteth itself against the knowledge of God.” What is done in a particular soul, to make way for the setting up of Christ’s kingdom, is to destroy Babel in that soul.

They intended to have built Babel up to heaven. However, that building of which we speak shall reach to heaven indeed, the highest heavens, at the end of the world, when it shall be finished: and therefore God would not suffer the building of his enemies, in opposition to it, to prosper. If they had prospered in building that city and tower, it might have kept the world of wicked men, the enemies of the church, together, as that was their design. They might have remained united in one vast, powerful city; and so have been too powerful for the city of God.

This Babel is the same with the city of Babylon; for Babylon in the original is Babel. But Babylon is always spoken of in Scripture as chiefly opposite to the city of God, as a powerful and terrible enemy, notwithstanding this great check put to the building of it in the beginning. But it probably would have been vastly more powerful, and able to vex if not to destroy the church of God, if it had not been thus checked.

Thus it was in kindness to his church, and in prosecution of the great design of redemption, that God put a stop to the building of the city and tower of Babel. [I, 3]

Silly Arguments Part II

Well, kids, that ol' Facepalming Picard means that it's time once again for a very silly argument.

Has this ever happened to you? Have you ever been sitting in a Starbucks, minding your own business, enjoying a good venti-sized vanilla bean frappacino, when suddenly some guy crashes his Dodge Ram truck through the window, rolls out the driver door dressed as Ronald McDonald, and proceeds to tell you that the Septuagint was written in the second century AD? You were probably thankful that you hadn't been hit, then after those sentiments of survival subsided you immediately asked the person a bit more about their position. You come to found out that they believe the copy of the Septuagint written before Jesus' time was merely the Law, and the rest of the Old Testament wasn't translated until the second century AD. Hence, when Matthew and the other Gospel writers quote the Old Testament in Greek, they were either inventing their own Greek verses, or the New Testament as a whole was written from the middle to late second century. You then tased him, not for what he said, but for the simple fact he's a lunatic crashing through buildings dressed as Ronald McDonald.

OK, maybe I've exaggerated this account just a little, but I did hear someone make the argument mentioned here.

The biggest thing we need to do is discuss some biblical history. When the books of the Old Testament were originally written, they were a mix of Hebrew and Aramaic texts. In the middle third century, under the funding of Ptolemy Philadelphus (then ruler of Egypt), it was decided to translate the Law into Greek, which had become the international language during the inter-testamental time. According to various stories, seventy-two Jewish scholars were selected, and finished translating the Law during the reign of Ptolemy Soter. It was perhaps the first major organized translation of scripture in history, similar to the work done by the King James Bible translators thousands of years later (and like the KJV, there's much mythology around its translating...but that's for another post).

The original Septuagint, as previously stated, wasn't the entire Old Testament, but rather was simply the five books of the Law. The question then comes: when were the other books finished? We have no solid evidence for the exact date that all the books of the Old Testament were finished. There are many signs, however, that much of it was done before the time of Christ, as seen by external evidence: the mid-second century Jewish historian Eupolemus mentions a Septuagint Books of Chronicles; the writer known as Aristeas quotes from the Septuagint Job; a footnote in an early Septuagint version of Esther suggests that it was in circulation before the end of the second century BC; the Septuagint Psalter is quoted in the apocryphal 1 Maccabees 7:17.

One of the biggest evidences we have that the Old Testament was completed by the time of Christ is found in the apocryphal work known as the Wisdom of Sirach. In the introduction, the author writes:

You are urged therefore to read with good will and attention, and to be indulgent in cases where, despite out diligent labor in translating, we may seem to have rendered some phrases imperfectly. For what was originally expressed in Hebrew does not have exactly the same sense when translated into another language. Not only this work, but even the law itself, the prophecies, and the rest of the books differ not a little as originally expressed. [RSV]

While speaking of translating from the Hebrew into the Greek, the author makes mention of "the law itself, the prophecies, and the rest of the books." This is compounded with the fact that Philo and Josephus - two well known Jewish authors who lived during the lifetime of the early Christian church - quoted extensively from the Septuagint, and not just the Law. All historical signs point to evidence that the Septuagint, as in the complete Old Testament, was completed by the time of Christ. Most scholarly sources place its completion in the middle second century BC.

So, was the Septuagint written in the second century AD? Absolutely positively not - there is too much evidence to the contrary. So...where did this idea that the Septuagint was written in the second century AD come from? One can't just make this stuff up out of thin air. I personally believe the individual making this argument was confusing it with the various streams of Septuagint revisions, most of which happened about the second century AD. The ones most known about:

The revision by Aquila (early 100's AD). By this time, the Septuagint was becoming unpopular among Jewish circles, partially because of the rise of Christianity which heavily utilized the Septuagint. Aquila, a Jewish proselyte, attempted to make the first major revision to the Septuagint, and did so by translating from the Hebrew into Greek almost word for word. This made for a somewhat awkward rendition, but one that was popular among the Jews for the next 500 years or so. Today it is only known through fragments.

The revision by Theodotion (late 100's AD). Theodotion was a Jewish convert that relied heavily upon the original Septuagint. His version was heavily quoted by many Church Fathers (including Justin Martyr), and his version of Daniel was especially widely preferred by many over the Septuagint's version.

The revision by Symmachus (soon afterward). Symmachus was said by the writer Epiphanius to have simply been a Samaritan convert to Judaism, although Jerome and Eusebius claim he was an Ebionite. He sought to smooth Aquila's translation by using the original Septuagint and Theodotion's work as reference. His translation likewise only exists in fragments.

Perhaps a worthy final mention is that of the Church Father Origen (late second century, middle third century AD). Origen was a Christian who understood Hebrew, and saw differences between the Masoretic texts of his time and the Septuagint. He collected together what was probably the first interlinear Old Testament, as well as the first example of textual criticism. What he did was place side by side: the Hebrew; the Hebrew transliterated into Greek characters; Aquila's work; Symmachus' work; the Septuagint; and Theodotion's work. Origen even included notes and symbols that signified when the Septuagint added or left out specific parts of a verse (not unlike the use of italics and footnotes in today's translation). Unfortunately, this momentous work only exists in fragments today, although it helped to preserve examples of the Septuagint revisions done by the other three men.

So to repeat our question of the day: was the Septuagint written in the second century AD? As we've seen, some streams of it were, but the Old Testament translated into Greek was finished and widely available by the time of Christ. The writers of the New Testament were not making up Greek verses, nor is the Septuagint evidence that the New Testament was written in the second century AD. The contention made at the beginning of this post is, as stated before, simply a silly argument.

------

UPDATE, February 12, 2013: Another possible source of this confusion might be that the individual is using KJV-Only sources. Some KJV-Only advocates try to teach that the Septuagint comes from a later date, even after the time of Christ. One such KJV-Only advocate writes: "People who believe that there was a Septuagint before the time of Christ are living in a dream world." (pg. 50; Peter Ruckman, The Christian's Handbook of Manuscript Evidence, 1976).

What happened in one Christian home...

The following is somewhat inspired by real events, though greatly exaggerated...

One night a Christian husband came home from work. He saw the only light on at the house was a dim lamp light seen through the living room window, but he thought nothing of it. Perhaps his wife was already asleep. He was happy to get home from a long, tiring day to her, and he looked forward to finding rest. He didn't expect any further trouble.

That was until he opened the front door. As he entered, he looked to his right, into the living room, and saw his wife sitting alone, on a chair that faced the door. She was tugging on a handkerchief and had her knees and feet together, suggesting she had been there for some time, waiting anxiously for him to get home.

"Hey, honey," the husband said, smiling at his wife, "are you all right?"

The wife looked up at him, and immediately the husband saw her eyes were red from crying, and dried tear trails could be seen on her cheeks. As if trying to find the right words, she bit at her lower lip, then finally said:

"I...was on your laptop earlier..."

As soon as she uttered those words, the husband felt his heart sink. His eyes widened, and all he could mutter was, "...were you?"

"And..." The wife shivered, holding back another round of tears. "...and...I found something..."

The husband dropped his briefcase near the door, walking into the living room, "What did you find...?"

"Well...I was going through your personal files, and found a video...I..." The words died coming out, and she could only shake her head, "I...I thought I could trust you! You were hiding this from me?!"

She was getting excitable, and tears were already starting to drop from her eyes again. The husband sighed and said, "I'm not trying to hide anything from you. What was it you found?"

The wife lifted her arms up, showing she had the husband's laptop on her lap. She opened it up and turned it around, resting it on the table beside her. A video was opened up full screen - a video the wife couldn't even bear to watch. She turned her face away, knowing the husband would at least be able to see it, and that was all she desired. And indeed he saw it. There was a heavy feeling of embarrassment and sadness as he looked at the laptop and saw...

...Dave Hunt's presentation What Love is This?

"What?!" the husband said. "Baby, no wait, I can't explain..."

"I thought my theology was enough for you!" the wife screamed, standing up and storming out of the room.

The husband chased after her, "Baby! No wait, it's just research! I wanted to listen to him and give a response!"

"I'M GOING HOME TO MOTHER!" shouted a voice from the bedroom.

"I promise!...Wait!...Don't slam that door!..."

Submitted for your approval...a man watching Dave Hunt. He tried to keep it a secret...but no one can keep any secrets once they find themselves in...the Twilight Zone...